CNC Machine Control Retrofits
Almost Daily, I get Phone Calls from People Looking for New CNC Controls for their Machine Tools. They seem to Think that This is an Easy Endeavor, In which you Quickly & Easily & Cheaply just Unplug Their Old Control, Plug-In a New Control,
and All Their Machine & Control Problems Magically Disappear.
I tell All these People the Same Thing;
New Controls Retrofits are Technically Feasible,
But, Are Rarely Economically Feasible!
Here's Why;
1 --- Control Retrofits are Expensive.
A P.C. (Personal Computer) Control Retrofit, in which they Replace Just the
Logic & Control Section, and Recycle & Reuse Existing Machine Servo-Drives and
Servo-Motors, Starts at about $25,000 to $30,000.
A more Complete Control Retrofit with a New Commercial Fanuc CNC Control and
New Fanuc A.C. Servo-Drives & A.C. Servo-Motors Fitted to the Machine,
will Start at about $70,000 to $80,000.
Generally Speaking, Retrofits are Only Economically Feasible on "Big Iron'' Machines, like a Big Boring or Planning Mill that Cost Many Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars,
and is Difficult to Move & Install. It is Worth-It to Update these Expensive Machines.
But its certainly Not Worth it, for instance, to put a New $30,000 to $80,000 Control on
a Old FC1000/1 "A-Control" Strippit Machine that's worth maybe $1000.
If you have a $80,000 Budget, Scrap the Old Machine, and Buy a Newer Used
FC1000S or FC1250S which would be Less Cost than the Retrofit,
but would be Light-Years Better in Capabilities & Reliability & Serviceability.
Some Bigger Turret Punch Machines may be Worth Retrofitting, but this is a Business Decision that Needs to be Based on Worth and Replacement Cost of the Machine. Considerations include Machine's Condition, Unique Features like Table Size,
Turret-Size, Station Size & Numbers, Auto-Index Stations, Press-Drive Features, Punch-Tonnage. And the Fact that it's Already On-Site, Installed, Tooled-Up, and your Operation & Maintenance Personal already Know & Understand this Particular Machine.
Most Manufactures do Not do Retrofits. This is because they are in the
"Selling New Machine" Business, and Not "Repairing Your Old Machine" Business.
However, to their Credit, Amada Does Offer Control Retrofits and Refurbishing of their Old Machines. Cost is Not Cheap, I understand New Control & Servo Packages are in
the $85,000 area. Strippit does Not do Control Retrofits, Except for FC1000R Class of Machines with Apple-Mac and DOS-PC Controls because Strippit has Parts & Service Issues with their "PC Controls" and can't keep them Running. Strippit's Fanuc
Control & Servo Retrofit for "R-Machines" is also in $75,000 to $85,000 range.
I would Scrap my Old R-Machine and Buy a Good Used, and Far Superior, Strippit FC1000S Machine before I would Spend 80-Large on a FC1000R Retrofit!
2 --- Manufactures, like Strippit, spent many Man-Years of Engineering Time on Tailoring a Control to a Particular Machine, and then Working the Various "Bugs" Out.
Control Retrofitter's Can NOT Spend Anywhere Near This Much Time on a Retrofit!
A Strippit Hi-Speed CNC Turret-Punch Machine is Very Complex, with Many Activities
all going on at the Same Time, in Real-Time. Functions like Controlling Acceleration, Decelerating, and Positioning of X, Y, and T Axis at same time. Doing Math Calculations, in Real Time, while Axis are Moving, during a Contour Nibbling Cycle. Handing Clutch and Brake during a Hi-Speed Punch Cycle that may only last 110 Milliseconds. And Doing All These, and Many Other Functions, while Monitoring All the Many Limit and Safety Switches and Sensors, at the same Time.
Now Picture a Service Tech, coming into your Shop. He wants to get the Job Done, and Go Home. In about a Week, he is Supposed to Literally Cut-Off Old CNC Control and somehow Graft New Generic CNC Control to Machine's Old Wiring. And Interface All Machines Switches and Sensors. And Duplicate All Old Control's Many Functions, Canned-Cycles, and Safety Features that He's Probably Not Even Familiar with.
Then get All the Various Bugs-Out. Remember,
The Original Manufacturer Spent Man-Years Of Engineers & Tech's Time Doing This!
The Tech doing this Work in Your Shop does Not Have Man-Years to get the Job Done.
The Reality is, it will take Multiple Trips back to Work the Bugs Out, as you slowly Discover Functions that Do Not Work. If it's a Good Retrofitter, they will spend the Time Necessary to get it as Correct as they can, with Some Necessary Follow-up Bug Troubleshooting Service Trips already Built-In to the Retrofit Price.
If its Not a good Retrofitter, you are on your own! You will have to Pay to get them Back, and they are sometimes Reluctant, as they want to Move-On to the Next Project. And as you have now Bastardized the Machine, Original Manufacturer will Now Refuse to Work on it anymore. So You better have a Good Relationship with the Retrofitter, and Hope that he doesn't "Go Away" or Move or Retire, as you are now
Dependent on them Forever. I have seen this Happen more than once!
3 --- Often, Customer is Blaming his Old CNC Control for All his Machine Problems, because it's Human Nature to Blame what We Do Not Understand.
Often times, The Problems are Not Even from The Control, but are Actually Machine Problems, like a Malfunctioning Switch, Loose Wires or Connections, or a Worn-Out Part. In my Experience, I see 4 or 5 Machine Problems for every Real Control Fault.
These are Maintenance Issues, Not "Bad" CNC Control Issues!
Most Shops Do Very Little, or even No Maintenance.
Do You Even Have A Maintenance Manual for Your Machine?
Has Anyone At Your Shop Ever Bothered To Read The Maintenance Manual?
If Shops would Do Regular Maintenance on their Machine, And
Fix Real Problems as they Appear Instead of Allowing them to Accumulate,
they would be Much Happier with their CNC Machine and it's Production.
My Advise to You.
If you are having Trouble with your CNC Control,
Just Get It Repaired Properly & Keep it Repaired!
It was Factory Designed, Built, and Interfaced
Just for Your Model Machine!!!
But Most Shop are Too-Cheap to get a Competent Serviceman in to Repair Machine & Control Properly, and so Problems Just Accumulate. Eventually, Machine becomes Unusable, and Production & Management People All Declare "It's a Piece of Junk!".
They then Scrap Machine or Sell it Cheap, Buy a New Machine,
and Start The-Cycle All Over Again.
I have made Tons of Money (Let's Keep This a Secret, OK?) over the Years Buying these "Pieces of Junk", Fixing All The Little Problems Prior Owner Would Not Pay to Repair Properly, and Reselling them Again. In Every Case, My Customers have been Happy with Machines I sold them. The Secret of The CNC Game is Service & Parts!
Above Opinions are Based on my 42+ Years of CNC Machine Field Service.
But, as I Say Over & Over Again, You Need To Do Your Own Research, And
Make Your Own Decisions Based On Your Unique Needs & Circumstances.
If you Still want to Investigate CNC Control Retrofits,
Here, In No Particular Order, are More Retrofit Resources;
Automated Machinery Inc.
They do Service and CNC Control Retrofits,
with Both PC-Based and Fanuc Controls.
They Work on Strippits,
but their Real Expertise is on the
Murata / Wiedemann Punch Machines.
They seem to do a good job of Retrofits.
This page was last updated: January 12, 2023
Slicer Controls LLC
They do CNC Control Retrofits,
with Their Own PC-Based CNC Controls.
They Retrofit Strippits,
but their Real Expertise is on the
Murata / Wiedemann Punch Machines.
They have been doing Retrofits a Long Time, and I think they do a Good Job of it.
PC Controls LLC
They do CNC Control Retrofits,
with Their Own PC-Based CNC Controls.
They Retrofit Strippits, and almost Any Other Machine Tool, using Various Independent Contractors around the Country.
Consider Carefully, as Quality of their Work seems to Vary with Who's Actually doing it.
Their Retrofits seem to work fairly well,
but Consensus of Many Service People is that PC Controls Hardware is Over-Priced
and Support is weak.
CamSoft PC Controls
They Make Various CNC Control Retrofit Software & Hardware Packages
Mainly for System Retrofit Integrators to Use,
and are NOT for Shop End-Users.
However, you can Learn Much
from their Web-Site.
Altronics Service Inc.
Specializing in Retrofitting Older
Whitney 647 Series Punch Press Machines.
Also Services Westinghouse, FlexMate, and Automation Intelligence Equipment.
Update on Slicer Controls. After 30+ Years, Slicer is Out Of Business!
There was an Auction June 2008, and All Slicer Equipment & Personal are Gone.
At this time 12/2008, their Web Site is still up, apparently someone is doing a bit of service out of his House Garage. Machines with Slicer Controls are now Unsupportable, and so are kind of Worthless, and should be Avoided. This is 1 of the Big Problems with Retrofitters, if they go away, You are are Stuck Holding
the Bag, as Service & Parts Disappear, and you can't keep your Machine Running.
Update on CamSoft Controls.
I have worked with a Very Experienced CNC Engineer who has 30+ Years Experience on CNC Controls & Machines, And Electronics Experience, And Software Code Writing & Development Experience. He purchased CamSoft Hardware and Software for a relatively simple Control Retrofit. He found some Advertised Features that Actually Did Not Exist, others that did Not Work at all, and Many that were "Buggy". Camsoft's Support was Very Weak "After The Sale" on Their Product Problems.
He ended up Having to write New Software Code to Fix All These Problems.
And Then Camsoft had the Gall to try to Steal His Fixes, for Their Code,
to Incorporate into Their Products!
It took Him Over Half a Year, and Hundreds of Hours to make it Work & Finish Retro!
He finally Completed Retro Project, but he had to "Made It All Work" Himself.
Do You have The Skills & The Time to Do All That? Me Neither.
Update on Altronics;
After 36+ Years, Al Fleming has Retired and Closed Altronics.
He still has some Control Repair Parts For Sale (Better Buy Them Now!),
and will still do some Westinghouse Circuit Board Sales & Repairs,
but that is about it. Enjoy your Retirement Al!
Applicam
With Over 20 Years Experience, Applicam Specializes in Retrofitting Older Turret Punch Press and Laser / Plasma Cutter Machines with their Own Proven PC-Control & Software System.
They have Successfully Retrofitted Many Different Turret Machine Brands, as well as a Couple of the Troublesome Strippit Apple-Mac Control "R" Type Machines. If you have a "R" Strippit Machine in
The Euro-Zone or Middle-East,
I would give them a Call.
Amada
Amada is Not in the Control Retrofit Business.
Amada has offered, in the Past, New Fanuc CNC Control Retrofits on some old Turret-Punch Machines when Repair Parts for old Fanuc Controls became "Not Available".
Retrofits were Expensive at $80,000+ as it Required New CNC Control, New Servo-Drives, New Servo-Motors, and Cabling on Machine.
I do not know if Amada still has these Retrofits available, Contact Amada for Information.
STRIPPIT - LVD
Strippit is Not in the Control Retrofit Business.
Strippit manufactured Hundreds of Various Types of Light-Duty R-Type Machines in the 1990's with Apple-MAC and Windows-95
P.C.-Computer CNC Controls.
These Controls worked well when New, but now after 20+ years, there are Severe Problems with many CNC Parts being "Not Available".
So Strippit was forced to offer, in the Past,
New Fanuc CNC Control Retrofits on R-Machines as Repair Parts became "Not Available".
Retrofits were Expensive at $80,000+ as it Required New CNC Control, New Servo-Drives, New Servo-Motors, and Cabling on Machine.
Strippit also did some Mechanical Up-Grading in Retrofit by Installing New X & Y Ballscrews.
I do not know if Strippit still has these Retrofits available, Contact Strippit for Information.
Strippit has Not Offered a Retrofit, Ever,
for any other Model of Machine.
As Most of my Fellow Servicemen
spend Way Too-Much Time On-The-Road,
here is
Helpful Advise
for when they get Home.....
5 Deadly-Terms Used By A Woman
1 -- FINE: This is the word Woman use to end an argument
when she knows She is right and You Need to Shut-Up.
2 -- NOTHING: Means Something and you Need to be Worried.
3 -- GO AHEAD: This is a Dare, Not Permission, Do Not Do It!
4 -- WHATEVER: A Woman's way of saying Screw-You.
5 -- THATS OKAY: She is thinking Long and Hard on
How and When You-Will-Pay for your Mistake.
Bonus Word: WOW!
This Is NOT A Compliment!
She's Amazed that one person could be So Stupid.
